two types of "evil, bad, or suffering"

When we discuss the problem of evil, we must determine what kind of evil are we talking about. For there is one kind of evil we call "moral evil" in that it comes from the moral choice of human beings usually upon other human beings, but may also be exercised upon plants animals and the natural world. Moral evil then is from humans toward things or people outside of themselves, and at times against themselves.
There is a second kind of evil as well we call "natural evil" It is that suffering or evil that is not prompted by the will moral choice of humans but comes as a consequence of living on a broken earth. This would include all kinds of sicknesses, natural disasters (e.g. hurricanes, tsunamis etc) accidents etc. These "troubles" find no source in the moral choice of mankind but in random external events. They may find their source in the course of weather patterns. They may  find their source in a stronger being (God) acting upon this finite world. The distinction is that you cannot trace the end of the matter to some willful act of man.
Now when we discuss the problem of evil and our all powerful, loving God we will discuss it from these two different angles.
As we have been looking at the life of Job and the Book of Job, we will need to first of all determine into which of these categories the problem or troubles that Job faces are suffering from the Moral or Natural category. I vie for the later. What about you?

some important definitions

As we tackle the problem of evil and suffering we will need to define some terms. Namely because they are often confused categories:
EVIL: 

· The absence of what ought to be…

· It is a lack in good things…

· “It is in the will, the choice, the intent, the movement of the soul, which puts a wrong order into the physical world of things and acts…” Handbook of Christian Apologetics, pg 132

TYPES OF EVIL:

 For a proper understanding of evil we must make a distinction between types of evil. .

“

  the evil we are not.” Handbook of Christian Apologetics, pg .132

SUFFERING:

Experience or be subjected to (something bad or unpleasant)

- he'd suffered intense pain

- he'd suffered a great deal since his arrest

Be affected by or subject to (an illness or ailment)

- his daughter suffered from agoraphobia

Become or appear worse in quality 

-his relationship with Anne did suffer

Undergo martyrdom or execution

Tolerate

- France will no longer suffer the existing government

Allow (someone) to do something

- my conscience would not suffer me to accept any more

Tomorrow we will discuss the 2 kinds of evil (as mentioned above) MORAL & NATURAL.

So how do we view the idea of Suffering? (part 1)

Let me begin by asking you the same question that I have to ask myself. How do I view the world in which I live?

• (1) Is it a world where suffering should not exist and if it does; it is out of order... ( a perfect world gone bad)?
• (2) Or do I live in a world in which suffering and evil exists normally and when it doesn't that seems out of order (a bad world experiencing temporary good) ?

Why is this question necessary? Because it establishes our worldview and how we will not only approach the problem of suffering and evil but how we will interpret the data. I am convinced that those of us who have been raised in the "secure west' will approach the question from the first position. Because of faith in progress, medicine, military and money we have been promised that eventually we can rid ourselves of all injustices, suffering and evil. While I can only speculate on this point I think that parts of the world racked with suffering, hunger, evil and pain might approach the problem from the second position stated above. Our presuppositions on this are very important. It determines how we state the question of suffering and evil. It determines how we go about solving it.
How would you think that Job views the world? would he choose option 1 or 2 above? Because he was so wealthy, satisfied etc. wouldn't he naturally view it from view 1? Does this effect the way you interpret this ancient book?
Let me give you two possible hints that Job may have viewed the world from position 2, (contrary to his station in life.)

• Job 1:5 "Perhaps my sons have sinned and cursed God..." Here Job seems to very realistic about the nature of sin in the world and in the human heart. His "perfect" world did not shield him or his children from sinful acts or destruction.
• Job 1:21 "Naked I came from my mothers womb and naked I shall return there." Naked is not a biological or physical description only here. It also refers to how pitiful is our basic station in life is at the beginning and ending of life.

Enough to chew on for one day. Tomorrow we will define some terms because I have already made too many assumptions with the terms used. 
Tell your friends to visit that blog and let's see what they think!
Scott

thinking about suffering

As we engage the story of Job and the issue of suffering, I heard a remarkable statement by the worship leader and musical artist at church yesterday. The artist name is Danny Oertli. His story is quite amazing and touching. He wrote a song that encourages his son Jack to embrace struggles and with his faith work through them. Is this normal? Well, probably not normal and yet extremely biblical and deeply spiritual. The song he wrote for his young son is called "Thought You Should Know" from his "Nothing Left To Prove" album. Normally we don't expect contemporary Christian artists to be the source of deep theological "stuff" but Danny breaks that mold. Does he begin to understand James words "to count it all joy my brethren, when you encounter various trials" (Ja. 1:2)?  Does our dear friend Job understand something of this as well, when he states "the Lord gives and the Lord takes away, blessed be the name of the Lord"? (Job 1:21)
So, I am learning. I like so many others have struggled to embrace the difficulties of life and question why I have had to face tough things. But alas, God is patient and I am not.  By the way f you want to see Danny's website it is www.dannyoertli.com.
Bless you all and keep on keeping on.

Sorry I have been out of touch.

Wow what a couple of months it has been. I am sorry that I have not been current on my blog. Hopefully it will get better some. Since my last post the following has happened:

• I had surgery immediately below my eye for skin cancer.
• We installed new counter tops in our kitchen.
• We listed our house for sale.
• We visited Mexico for a bit of R & R.
• Our middle daughter Kelli got married.
• I traveled to Wichita for a two day exploration trip.
• I got the motorcycle into the garage for its spring cleanup.
• Celebrated Easter, and have two visits by family from Kansas.

This is on top of my normal tasks of teaching at, and promoting the College and sending out 100 support letters to friends and family.

But now it's time to get back to the blog at hand and where were we?

Angels in Heaven, sure but Satan?

This passage for sure has caused much herat burn for commentators and Bible scholars. Was this the Satan of the Garden and Revelation 12:10? How is satan allowed into the presence of God. Does he accuse others even ourselves just as he is accusing Job? Does he have the power to afflict us as he does with Job?  Why does the Hebrew use the definite article before his name (making it "the Satan")? Is he literal of figurative? Why do the angels come to present themselves before God, does he not know what they are doing?

Beyond some simple answers that are mostly wanting we need to understand several key principles.

1. All things are before God's presence, while we maintain that nothing evil has a permanent presence or existence before GOd we cannot say that no evil whatsoever has ever come before God.
2. We know that angels present themsleves before God to do His bidding, it also seems clear that the fallen ones or the chief fallen one has some presence in court before God as attested to by this passage a nd others like Luke 22:3 and Rev. 12:10.
3. Many theologians  maintain that while Satan was cast from heaven prior to the fall of man in Gen. 6; he will be permanently cast from God's presence and the presence of mankind at the final judgement in Revelation.

All in all, the key to understanding this section of Job is to realize that there is an accuser of mankind before God and that accuser is the liar and destroyer Satan and his minions. He thoughrougly enjoys this role and task. Anything to disrupt and destroy the work of God at any point in the evangelsitic process (Matt. 13:36; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; 2 Thess. 2 :8). Christians should never be found assisting the work of Satan and become one anothers "accuser"!

So how do we respond to this message?

• Believe and know that Satan is at work against us, but he is impotent when we are strong in Christ.
• Realize that like any penal act it can be a deterrant as well. Let's not give Satan opportunity to prove us sinful without making him lie!
• Prayer keeps us presenting oursleves before the LORD as the angels do. Let's enter into His presence with confidence and boldness becuase we have our best to present.
• Remember that we are eternally grateful that Christ is our advocate, presenting our innocence through Himself.

Mat_13:25, Mat_13:28; 2Co_2:17, 2Co_11:3, 2Co_11:13-15; Eph_2:2, Eph_6:11-12; 2Th_2:8-11; 1Pe_5:8; Rev_12:9, Rev_13:14, Rev_19:20, Rev_20:2-3, Rev_20:7-10

Money and the Cause of Christ

OK, so we all agree that money is more fun to have than to not have. If you disagree with this statement I would like to hear about life from under your rock. Just like having a car is more fun than not having one (even though maybe a horse is fun to a degree, it wears thin in places... isn't that why we chose to invent a iron one?) Anyway, we live in a world in which money is integral, necessary and many times critical. But do necessary things need to become things of worship? Money is a tool and thus a means to an end; not the end in itself. So we ask ourselves; "to what (end) do we expect the (means of) money to accomplish: wealth? security?  What will the tool called money accomplish in my hands? If we continually ask this question it will be amazing how we begin to change our views of money. Can  money really accomplish the end we desire. Does money truly create security? Does money really make me a better person by the volume of it?

Notice that Job, in our ongoing study here, uses much of his money to keep his family connected with God. To what end does Job need to offer sacrifices for his "party-ing" children, is a subject of debate. Is this a act of a father trying to cover the overt sins of his children who are squandering their lives? Or is it a father that takes a very active, maybe even pro-active, role in the spiritual guidance of his children? Here is how it reads:
Job 1:5
When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would send and have them purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, "Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." This was Job's regular custom.
NIV

I see things generally from the positive view point and I think that Job is hedging his bets. Notice the phrase "perhaps". (in the NASB and NIV) "it may be" ( in the ESV and KJV). Was Job being very careful and proactive. Or was he only ignorant and didn't want to know. Was he functioning as the "priest" of his home? For the sake of argument let's say he is functioning as the priest of his home. Is he teaching us that the end for which he uses some of his money is to promote or prompt the spiritual life of his kids? Is he using money to help his kids walk closer to God? Wow, when was the last time we saw any of our money being used for this end or purpose? How might that look? Well obviously tithing at our local church assembly might be an indirect way. How about a more direct way?
What if you used your money to take your family on a missions trip. What if you funded the whole thing without sending support letters to friends and family? 

Something to "think as we should!"

Lord God, we bow before you as the giver of all gifts and tools. One of those tools you give to us is money. Forgive us when we use this tool to support our own desires and ends. Help us to look beyond the world of our need to the idea of money used for your glory. Help us to seek after your call to us that we may have tuned out. We love you and desire to honor you even now with our money.  


Send me your thoughts and comments!